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Published on:

5th Nov 2026

Going Beyond “Here’s Your Stuff, Bye”: A Designer’s Offboarding Makeover Inside The Experience Edit

Kelley’s offboarding sequence used to be one email. Basically: here’s your stuff, bye.

In this case study episode, Colie sits down with Kelley of Hidden Path Creative, a packaging designer who went through The Experience Edit before it even had that name. Kelley signed up for one reason: she heard Colie talk about offboarding and realized everything after delivery was a blank page.

Y’all, what she built in that blank space is one of the best offboarding phases Colie has seen all year.

They talk about why repeating yourself to clients is a service and not an annoyance, how pre-written emails make it easier to hold firm on revisions and deadlines, and why Colie is (gasp) totally fine with your templates living in a Google Doc now. Plus, the one email Kelley sent to past clients that turned up sales results she never would have known about.

Oh, and there’s a detour through Colorado’s voting system that turns out to be the perfect client communication lesson. Didn’t plan it. It worked anyway.

Ready to map out what your clients experience from inquiry all the way through offboarding? Book a solo sprint at coliejames.com/experience

Mentioned in this Episode

The Experience Edit

Bonsai

Flodesk

Snooze, an A.M. Eatery

Connect with Kelley

Website: hiddenpathcreative.com

Packaging Pronto!: hiddenpathcreative.com/packagingpronto

Transcript
Speaker:

Hey, y'all.

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Welcome back.

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I am here with a case study episode, but I want to preface this by saying

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Kelley did The Experience Edit with me before it was The Experience Edit.

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So prior to today's call, she had not seen the Systems Professor app or

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anything that my current clients are using to build their client journey.

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So I do want you to keep that in mind as I'm asking her about working

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through her own client process inside of what The Experience Edit used to be.

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Kelley, welcome to my podcast.

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Thanks, Colie.

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I'm so excited to be here, and I'm so excited about what you just showed

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me about what people are gonna see-

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I mean, all of it-

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in The Experience Edit … is so awesome.

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The funny thing is, um, Kelley did not live in Colorado when

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we first worked together.

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She was in the process of moving here, and since, I have, as you guys know, I

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have been taking all of my clients to Snooze for brunch as they move here, as…

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Oh, no, Kelley, you're actually my second client to move

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here in the last six months.

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Really?

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Which is hysterical to me.

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That is so funny.

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So I met you at a Snooze, right?

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Uh-huh.

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And then a, like, I guess it was now in July, one of my clients, who used to live

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in Las Vegas, sent me a text message, like, not an email, but a text message,

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and was like, "Hey, girl, what you doing?"

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And I was like, "Uh, I'm…"

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I don't even remember what I was doing, but she was like, "Hi, neighbor."

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I was like, "I'm sorry, what?"

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She's like, "Yeah, we moved to Colorado three weeks ago."

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I was like, "Oh my God.

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Colorado is the place to be.

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I mean- It

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is

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… Speaker 2: it's amazing how many, like, other creatives in this space

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I'm finding out live in Denver, Fort Collins, Longmont, that whole, this

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whole kind of, like, area that, like, I had no idea before we moved here.

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I was on Alissa Morehead's podcast.

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I don't know how long ago that will be when this airs, but, uh, she is

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someone that when I first met her over a year ago in a program, uh,

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did not live here, and then she just realized when we recorded, uh, she

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was like, "Oh my God, you're here?"

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I'm like, "Yeah, girl, I'm right outside of Boulder," 'cause she moved to Denver.

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So, I mean, I do feel like Colorado is just attracting

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all of these entrepreneurs.

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And why would you not wanna live in Colorado?

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I think we all know I do not live here to be outdoorsy.

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Like, I would rather eat glass than go on a hike.

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But do you know what I love?

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I love our voting system, and since we're currently in voting

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season, let's just say- We are

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shout out to the state of Colorado because we have the best voting

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system in all of the United States.

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We do.

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I just got my first blue book, and I am so excited.

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And for anybody that doesn't live here, the blue book tells you about all of

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the things that you're voting on and explains them in real language so

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you don't look at your ballot and go, "I don't understand what this means.

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I don't understand," like, "I don't understand what yes and no means on

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this amendment," or whatever it is.

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So I was…

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I got that, and I was like, "I did not know about this, but this is amazing."

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Yes.

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And just to put it out there, it is completely non-biased language.

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So when you get it- Yeah … it doesn't lean right, it doesn't lean left.

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It is accurately telling you what each amendment is, and it's not trying to

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sway you to vote one way or the other.

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Its only goal is to make sure that we have the most informed voters that we can have.

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Right.

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It just takes that legalese language that is hard for those of us that are not

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lawyers to follow and put it into plain language so that you can understand what

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you, what you're yay-ing or nay-ing.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, I mean, Kelley hasn't actually experienced voting yet, guys, because

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we just said each of us got our text message to let us know that

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our mail-in ballots are on the way.

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So yes, in the state of Colorado you do not request a mail-in ballot.

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One is automatically mailed to every single registered voter in the state,

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and it sends you a text message to let you know that it's on the way

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So excited about that.

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So, makes it so much easier.

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So much

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easier Kelley, wait till you get the text message that tells you

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that your ballot has been received- Ooh … and then you get another text message

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that tells you that it's been counted.

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Oh, I'm so excited for this.

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I mean, there's no guessing.

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It, it should

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be this easy.

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It should be this easy everywhere.

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It really should be.

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Yes.

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So in case you guys didn't pick up on this, her and I are definitely biased.

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Like, we are very pro, okay?

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I mean, 'cause I, I think about, you know, that, that person always talking

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about how bad mail-in ballots are.

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And also, I mean, I guess I should just put one more layer out there.

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I don't think that people that don't believe in this would

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listen to my podcast anyways.

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But when people- True … are like, "Oh, but there's fraud," no.

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They actually compare your signature on the envelope to your signature

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when you registered, and if they do not match, they will contact you so

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that you can come in and cure your signature to make sure that it matches.

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And so, you know, we have things in place to make sure that the

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people who are voting are actually the people who are registered.

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Right.

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This will be my first time, so I had no idea that they do that.

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But I'm, I mean, I'm here for it.

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Like, please just, just make it easy for us all to like-

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The thing … put in our votes.

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Yes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, it's not exactly a perfect segue into what we're gonna talk

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about, but I'ma make it work anyways.

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So- Okay

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we just very briefly went into what the voting process is like in the state

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of Colorado, and I'm gonna talk to you guys today about my process of working

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with Kelley inside of the Experience Edit, where all we do is think about

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what you want to do with your clients and basically map that process out.

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So I told you, you know, you go, you register to vote, you

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fill out your registration.

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They automatically mail you a ballot.

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You fill it out, you drop it off at one of the locations, or you bring it

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in on actual Election Day, and you get all of these automatic notifications.

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Girl, I couldn't have planned this better myself- No

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now that I'm saying it out loud.

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No, you could not.

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I really like what you did here.

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I love what you did here.

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So just think about these automatic text messages that I have

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told you that we get from the state of Colorado as the automatic emails

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that you need to be sending your clients to keep them informed of

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the process from beginning to end.

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So Kelley- Yes … when you did the Experience Edit with me, it did not

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include an offer review, which I now do, and the reason that I do that

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is we don't wanna build anything around shitty offers around here.

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We wanna make sure that your offers are profitable,

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sustainable, and enjoyable to run.

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But I know from meeting you in person and working with you, all of that

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was true, so you would have passed your offer review with flying colors.

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But so let's just- Thank

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you.

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I do appreciate that.

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You know.

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I mean, you know, e- even if you had some work to do on your client journey,

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like, what you do for people is super awesome, which we should probably tell

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them what that is in just a minute.

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But let's move on to phase two.

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Phase two is you literally sit down and you think about every single step, every

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single touchpoint that you work with inside of your offer with your clients.

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So now is the perfect opportunity to actually say, "Hey, Kelley, what do

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you do when you service your clients?"

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Great question.

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And, um, yeah, this would be a good time to, to tell everyone

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that I am a packaging designer.

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I work with physical product-based businesses to design, uh, packaging,

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the graphics on the packaging that help their products stand out on shelf,

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attract more customers, sell their products, get more wholesale orders,

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um, and bring their brands together.

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And my main offer, my signature offer, is Packaging Pronto, which is a VIP design

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day where I work solely with that one client to design up to three product

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packages for their line And it is, I mean, I started doing that offer, um, two or

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three years ago, and it's, it's turned out to be a really great thing for my clients,

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'cause a lot of times packaging is that last step in developing your product and

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that first step in marketing your product.

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And it always tends to be this crunch point.

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So I, I couldn't tell you how many times, even when I was in corporate before I

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started my business, it was like, "Well, the packaging needs to get done so

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that the product can get out the door."

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And so that is a big reason why I created Packaging Pronto, so that I made

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it really easy for product businesses to get their packaging designed fast-

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Mm-hmm

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but still strategically.

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I can imagine that people who have created products, this is

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like the best of both worlds, 'cause they have probably procrastinated

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on getting this packaging forever.

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But if your product doesn't have packaging, it can't go on a shelf at

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Ulta or wherever it is that you are going to be selling these things.

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I mean, hell, even Amazon.

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But, like, packaging is so important, not just for the aesthetic, but,

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like, it, it informs clients what they're buying and the ingredients

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and, like, all of these things.

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So, you know, packaging is super important.

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And I think that getting it done in a single day is just

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more than anybody could ask for.

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Oh, totally.

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And my clients love that.

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They love that, like, because it is something that they put

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off, and they feel like it…

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And I think, and it's, it's one of kind of like the misconceptions that, you know, I

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work with my clients on, is that they have to wait until everything is absolutely

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done and they are ready to manufacture the product to start the packaging design,

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and that's typically a little too late.

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Um, but that's part of what Packaging Pronto solves.

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And then also, if my clients are working with a manufacturer to produce

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the product, like I work with a fair amount of clients that are, like,

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contract manufacturing overseas, they can do all of the things to develop the

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product and get a final approved sample.

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But if that product is going to be shipped in the packaging, which the packaging

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also helps protect during shipping, the packaging not only has to be designed,

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but it has to be produced before the product can be produced because they're

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literally going to build the product on the line and immediately put it

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in the package- Slap that packaging

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or put the tag on it, or put the label on it, and they're not gonna hold

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your product and wait the, you know, wait the month to get the packaging.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, um, I'm actually working with a client later this week where, you know, she's,

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she's at that point in between where like- The, the prototypes are almost

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approved, and there's gonna be a little bit of, of gray area while we work on

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this, but we're gonna do it so that when she's ready to hit go on manufacturing,

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her packaging is ready to go too.

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Awesome.

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Okay, so tell me about what your client experience was like, because

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you are using Bonsai as a CRM.

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Mm-hmm.

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You use Flodesk for your email marketing.

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But, like, when someone inquired about your service, did you have a consistent

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client journey from beginning to end?

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Did you have some kind of checklist?

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Like, how did that work for you to manage the different

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phases of the client experience?

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This is such a great question, and that was, like, a main reason why

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I did the Experience Edit, was because I had some of those checkpoints down,

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but I knew they could be better.

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Like, I had the easy ones down of, like, okay, somebody sends me an inquiry form.

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I send them back an email that says, "Hey, book a call."

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And that was, like, only…

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That wasn't really automated.

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And then they booked their call, and then they got, like, a standard, generic

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confirmation email from Calendly.

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And then I would meet with them, and then I would send them a

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proposal, and that email was meh.

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And then I…

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I love it when my clients come on here and admit how

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shitty their communication was- Oh, yeah … before they did it.

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Like, I am very…

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I am, I, I'm a straight shooter, and I'm like, I very much subscribe

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to, like, the five-sentence email.

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Like, the, the bare minimum to get it, like, off my plate.

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So, um, like, my emails were the bare minimum.

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My list of checkpoints and check-ins were the bare minimum.

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Um, so, like, I, I knew that that was, like, a part of my client

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experience that could be better.

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That, you know, like, I would get more questions than I felt comfortable

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with or that I liked, and then I'd be annoyed that I have questions, and I

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shouldn't be annoyed 'cause, like, my clients need to know what's going on.

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Um, and so, so I had, I had, like, the basic emails.

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Like, I had, like, the, the core emails- Mm-hmm … of, like, "Hey, you inquired.

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Hey, here's your proposal.

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Hey, here's your contract and deposit invoice.

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Hey, here's a welcome email.

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Hey, here's an email to review something."

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, and then I had a delivery email of, like, "Here

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are your final deliverables," but that is where things ended.

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100%.

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And…

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Yep.

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And I think actually, like, the main trigger for me to, um, sign

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up for the Experience Edit was that you gave a talk in Maggie's BS-Free

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Business- Mm-hmm … Summit, um, last year, and you talked about having an

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off-boarding sequence, and I was like, "My off-boarding sequence is one email."

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Is bye.

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Bye.

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Here's your stuff.

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No, I love that because one of the things that I say is that the client

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experience shouldn't stop at delivery.

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Like, if I could tattoo something on my forehead, I mean, there's a lot of things

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I would tattoo on my forehead, to be honest, but that is definitely one that I

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try to communicate to everyone because…

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And this is not just designers, Kelley.

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This is everybody.

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No.

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Yeah.

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This is photographers.

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This is website designers.

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Like, you literally hand over the thing that they paid you thousands

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of dollars to create, and you're basically like, "Bye, Felicia.

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Thanks for the, you know, thanks for the money," and then that's just it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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And so, you know, I'm happy that me talking about off-boarding, 'cause

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sometimes I do think I'm a little extra.

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I do think that I repeat myself about the importance of a good

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off-boarding process too much.

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Like, and then I hear from people like you that are like, "No, Colie.

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Like, now I ask my clients when they're coming back.

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I'm making my retention offers, and people are actually booking them."

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And I'm like, "Okay, that's why I do this."

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Like, how can I get everybody to invest in this so that they understand you

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will make so much more consistent revenue in your business if you simply

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ask the people who have already paid you, "When are you coming back?"

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And, you know, a lot of us are like, "Oh, but they'll come back when they're ready."

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Yeah, no, they won't.

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No, they won't.

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They'll forget, and then maybe they will come back.

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But I think, like, you just made a really good point, and it is that

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we get so close to our own process.

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Like you said, you repeat these things over and over again, and I think that

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that was, like, what I felt about my emails was I felt like, you know, I'd

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be on a consult call, which is my intro discovery call to see if we wanna work

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together, and I would explain my process.

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And then on the strategy call before the design day, I would then again re-explain

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the schedule of the day and the process.

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And I, I think that, like, we are so close to our businesses, we are so

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close to our process that we know them inside and out, that we forget that,

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like, it is our client's first time.

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Experiencing.

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A lot of times it's their first time through this experience.

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Or, you know, if they're somebody that's coming back, they work with

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you once a year, um, and so they may not remember all of those bits and

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pieces, whereas, like, we're living it every day, so we are so ingrained

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in that that we forget that, like, no, I do need to repeat it three or four

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times to make sure that they're aware.

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And that's actually a service to my clients.

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Like, it's not a…

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I think we get so worried about, like, am I annoying them by telling them-

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Yes

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… Speaker 2: this for the third time?

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Kelley, I hear that so often.

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I hear that people are like, "But no, like Colie, my clients

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don't want all these emails."

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I beg to differ.

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I am someone that like you tell me something, and I swear to God,

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I listen to you so intently and heard everything that you said.

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And, you know, I'm now 47 years old, and my brain doesn't work

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the same way that it used to.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I, I don't know if I can quite blame perimenopause at this

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point, but I can blame something.

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And so I really need- I would love to blame perimenopause.

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Yeah

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… Speaker: right?

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I really need you to have explained it in an email or in a link or some

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kind of guide that you gave me so that when my brain fails me, and it

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will, I can go find what you already reiterated to me on a call to where

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I can find it and read it again.

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And like, it's one of those things, I don't necessarily know that you had an

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equivalent, but like I was talking to one of my photography clients last week,

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and she did an experience edit, and she revamped her entire welcome guide.

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Like, it…

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She didn't really- Mm-hmm … have a welcome guide.

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She had something that she was sending them, but it wasn't like a

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really good formal welcome guide.

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And once she redid it, and she put all of that effort in, my question was, "Okay,

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now when are we gonna strategically resend this to your clients from the point

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that you send it the first time after they've booked until the actual session?"

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And she's like, "Oh, but like, you know, they'll have it."

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I'm like, "Yeah, but they need to be reminded- They forgot

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that they have it."

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They need to be reminded when key pieces of information in that

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guide are now relevant to them.

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They may open your guide and like do a really good job of reading it

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from beginning to end, but if they are not gonna get your service for

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three months, oh, the next month they've already forgotten it all.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Yeah.

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So yes, it's your job to like put it in front of them again.

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And for you, the fact that you're doing VIP days, like when I did them, I did

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repeat myself over and over again to remind them of the pre-work and its

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importance and why they had to give it to me, and then the schedule of

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the day and exactly what would happen, and then what happens after the day.

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What does your support period look like?

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Those are things that you have to repeat yourself because they get all

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excited for you- Mm-hmm … about getting their packaging in a single

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day, and like they forget the rest.

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Oh yeah.

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Yeah.

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They forget those, they forget those details.

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They forge- And, like, that's totally okay.

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Like, that's why I'm here.

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That, you know, that's why we're here, is to deliver the service for them so that

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th- they can rely on an expert to do that.

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It just means we have to communicate more.

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Yes.

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So that was like, that was huge for me going through the experience.

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And it was, like, making sure that, like, I had not just those core

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emails, but like, what, what are the additional emails that I need?

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Like, where do I need to add in a reminder?

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'Cause I, uh, one of the things that you kept asking me was, like, you're

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so good at asking these questions, Colie, of like, "Okay, but what

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happens if they don't do this?"

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Like, you've sent them something to do.

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What happens if they don't do it?

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And I think I had the same answer.

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Well, I was like, "Well, they have the email.

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They'll do it 'cause they bought the service."

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And it's like, no, they probably need, they probably need a reminder.

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And, and I have seen that, where clients come back and they're

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like, "Oh, I know I need to do this, but I can't find the link."

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And so, like even something as simple as like having a reminder email set up and

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not just saying like, "Hey, reminder to do this," but, "Reminder to do this, and

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to make it easy, here's the link again."

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Here's the link.

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And also, I love it when you guys remind them of why.

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Yeah.

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That is something that you guys don't think about that I try to like

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hammer into your head, if you will.

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People are more likely to complete the task that you gave them if you

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remind them of why it's important.

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And while this is not really the case for you because you are doing your

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design in a single day, the other designers that I've worked with this

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year, like the feedback loop was a definite point of contention- Mm-hmm

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for all of them.

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And I have one client, I love her so much, but I read her email and

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her … Okay, so she sends them the design on a Friday, and they have

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to give her feedback on a Monday.

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She sends them- Ooh … a couple reminders over the weekend.

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Okay.

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But if she doesn't have it at 9:00 AM on Monday, she sends them an

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email that basically tells them that their project has been paused.

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And w- uh, I know, you guys should see Kelley's face right now.

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She is horrified.

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The funny thing is, this person is like the sweetest person ever.

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And when I read this email, I was like, "Damn, girl, this reads like I wrote it."

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I was like, "Where did you find the gumption?"

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She's like, "No."

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She's like, "I need people…"

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Because, you know, if you're doing a brand design and then you're doing a

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website design, but you can't start the website part until they finish the

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brand part- Yeah … like every single delay in giving you feedback, every

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single round of revisions that you're requesting delays finishing the project.

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And for anybody out there that, you know, you're, you're allotting a certain

Speaker:

amount of time to a client, when one client delays and delays and delays, it

Speaker:

then pushes out your next client and your next client, and that's when we end up,

Speaker:

yes, we've been paid for the service and probably paid well, but we have to finish

Speaker:

it and deliver it- That is very true

Speaker:

and be able to check it off.

Speaker:

And so, I mean, I was just, I was honestly flabbergasted.

Speaker:

I was like, "Okay, no, this is a really good email and I'm really

Speaker:

happy that I didn't have to tell you to do this," but also like, I'm

Speaker:

gonna use this as an example from now on because it was so well done.

Speaker:

And the thing about making sure that in an email like that is most effective is that

Speaker:

can't be the first time that you have- No

Speaker:

threatened to pause the project.

Speaker:

Like we communicate, or she communicates it on her

Speaker:

consultation call before they book.

Speaker:

It is communicated in the proposal.

Speaker:

It is communicated two days before she delivers the item that has been designed.

Speaker:

Like we are reminding them multiple times, "I am going to

Speaker:

give this to you on a Friday."

Speaker:

Now, for her, it was very important that everything like happened on certain

Speaker:

days, but for you- Or anyone else that's not doing it on certain days.

Speaker:

It's just informing your clients that when you give them this thing

Speaker:

to do, they have exactly 48 hours, 72 hours in order to do the thing

Speaker:

so that the project can continue.

Speaker:

Because if they're trying to launch their new website, let's say,

Speaker:

in six weeks, every single delay pushes that out further and further.

Speaker:

Oh, yeah.

Speaker:

So reminding them that if you don't do this thing, and in your case, I mean, with

Speaker:

like a physical product where you have to ship it off to the place that's actually

Speaker:

selling it, I mean, to me, those deadlines have even more consequences than those of

Speaker:

us that are just doing something online.

:

They do, and I think, you know, I think it's, it's interesting that you

:

bring up that example and my reaction to it because I mean, I have a, uh, I

:

have pr- I have a challenge holding a strong boundary with a client, but that

:

comes from, like, my corporate experience where, like, I was working in-house.

:

You just couldn't push things out.

:

It was, you just had to figure out how to get it done.

:

Um, but that is the other reason why I like VIP days, because, uh, like, they've

:

heard multiple times, "You're gonna get your first look around noon my time.

:

You are going to get a form to help you guide your feedback.

:

You can leave comments directly in my design file.

:

I have a tool that helps me to do that.

:

And if you wanna hop on a call…"

:

Like, you have these three options- Mm-hmm … for how to provide feedback.

:

But, like, this is your opportunity for feedback.

:

Like, we're not turning this into a weeks-long design process.

:

Mm-hmm.

:

Like, the, the structure of the service, like, creates that boundary,

:

that natural boundary- It does

:

for it to, to help me do that.

:

And to your point, yes, like, if … And then I deliver those

:

final files five business days later, but, like, if something delays that,

:

then your print's going out later and your production might be, like-

:

Delayed

:

… Speaker 2: kicked down the road.

:

Like, it might be delayed, or, like, you might miss your ship

:

window, and, like, those are big…

:

You're right.

:

Those are big business consequences that clients don't want to have happen.

Speaker:

I mean, and the whole thing about boundaries.

Speaker:

So let's come back around to, you know, the whole reason that I

Speaker:

started focusing on this, right?

Speaker:

Is because I truly believe that if you are just told to go sit in a corner

Speaker:

or sit at your desk or wherever it is that you like to do your big thinking,

Speaker:

and you think about exactly what needs to be communicated to your clients and

Speaker:

when, and then you take the time to actually write those email templates.

Speaker:

Even if you're customizing every single one- Mm-hmm … the fact that

Speaker:

you have the process laid out, you have 80% of the email written to just

Speaker:

sprinkle on that extra, that means that you are being consistent with

Speaker:

each and every one of your clients.

Speaker:

It means that you are able to communicate that with each and every one of

Speaker:

your clients, and it does make it a hell of a lot easier to hold those

Speaker:

boundaries that you have set in place so that you don't get in an awkward

Speaker:

place where your client is testing your boundaries and you're trying to

Speaker:

figure out what to say in the moment while they are waiting for the answer.

:

It does make it so much easier.

:

Um, there are a couple things that I customize in my templates, particularly

:

when I'm sending things for review But the structure's already there.

:

I already know what I'm gonna say.

:

I can ignore the things that make me uncomfortable, meaning, like, if

:

I'm saying, like, "I need you to do something on this timeframe that is

:

inflexible," um, that is already written.

:

I don't have to think about it.

:

So I'm not, like, writing it in the moment and then rethinking it

:

and going like, "Maybe I should make this a little softer."

Speaker:

No.

:

No, it's just done.

:

I don't even kind of reread that part.

:

I just reread the part that I'm customizing, which is like, "Hey,

:

here's what we focused on for your design, and-" La-di-da, and

:

here's what I'm gonna work on next.

:

Mm-hmm.

:

Like that, and that's all very factual.

:

So yeah, so then it just makes it very easy.

:

And then I just I hit send and it goes.

:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

It really does relieve stress.

Speaker:

And I honestly don't know that I didn't understand the importance

Speaker:

of doing that later in the process because, of course, for the longest I

Speaker:

was only working with photographers.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

And so what I would tell them is, "No, we do this planning.

Speaker:

We create these templates so that you don't feel uncomfortable when

Speaker:

you say your price out loud."

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

My thing with photographers is, if given the opportunity, you will negotiate a

Speaker:

discount for a client that didn't even ask for one . Like, they're, you know,

Speaker:

they're hesitating, they're thinking, and you think to yourself, "Oh, but if I

Speaker:

just offer a discount, they'll book me."

Speaker:

And the answer to that is almost always no.

Speaker:

But if you've designed this beautiful proposal, if you've already written

Speaker:

these emails, if you've already clearly communicated your pricing,

Speaker:

you don't get the itch to do that.

Speaker:

You just push a button and hit send.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And the same thing is for you designers, you know, down the road where you are

Speaker:

trying to communicate your boundaries.

Speaker:

And in some cases, you are communicating to them that delays have costs.

Speaker:

Now, for your clients, it might be big manufacturing, shipping, production

Speaker:

costs that you're not collecting.

Speaker:

But also, if you were charging them a fee for delaying things, you've already

Speaker:

got the emails written out, you've already clearly communicated it in the

Speaker:

onboarding process, and probably reminded them of it again before the VIP day.

Speaker:

So you've done your part.

Speaker:

And if they delay- Yes … that's on them.

Speaker:

And all you have to do is smile and hit send and send that email

Speaker:

or that invoice or whatever it is to get them back on track.

:

Yeah, 'cause then you're right.

:

With photography there's, there's a little bit more of that up front.

:

We still have that upfront as designers, but I think, um, with

:

design being a little collaborative, with there being feedback- Mm-hmm

:

specifically those feedback loops.

:

Like, it's really easy to say, like, you know, with my design day, it's,

:

like, time-bound, but I do some tr- more traditional projects, too,

:

when there's, like, a bigger scope.

:

And it's real easy to say, like, in my contract, in my proposals,

:

you get two rounds of revisions.

:

Um, but then in the moment when I've sent that second round of revision and somebody

:

comes back and is like, "Well, can we just change this or can we just change that?"

:

It's very easy for me to go, "Oh, I can just do that."

:

And then…

:

And it's a slippery slope.

:

And then I wind up with a client where I'm then on, like, a fourth

:

or fifth revision, and then I've gotta, gotta backtrack a little bit.

:

Um, but having, having some language around that pre-done means, like-

:

I don't have to feel like I'm being the bad guy around it, even

:

though I'm not being the bad guy.

:

I just want my client, I want my clients to be happy with

:

the work that we're doing.

Speaker:

We all want our clients to be happy.

Speaker:

But I think one of the things about making sure that you have adequately put

Speaker:

boundaries in, and literally the tool that I use to give you your first offer

Speaker:

view, it is looking for places where you have given someone unlimited of anything.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Unlimited contact with you, unlimited revisions, unlimited edits to photos,

Speaker:

unlimited number of photos in the gallery.

Speaker:

I'm specifically looking for these things because I want everyone

Speaker:

to make sure that your time, your service, your offer has boundaries.

Speaker:

Now, as you said, if you sent out that second revision and maybe you

Speaker:

were a little iffy or they were a little iffy, whatever it is, if they

Speaker:

came back and they said, "Oh, I mean, it's perfect except this one thing.

Speaker:

Can we just do this one thing?"

Speaker:

Maybe you do give them that for free, right?

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Maybe, maybe you do feel like that is a service and like that

Speaker:

that's really gonna close it.

Speaker:

Maybe you don't feel like being the hard ass and actually charging

Speaker:

them the third revision fee that you communicated in your contract.

Speaker:

But then if you give them that one for free and they come for a fourth

Speaker:

and a fifth and a sixth, that's when you go back to your contract and

Speaker:

say, "Sure, I'm more than willing.

Speaker:

I- would you like for me to send you over that invoice?"

Speaker:

Blah, blah, blah.

:

Yes.

Speaker:

I mean, but if you didn't communicate that in the beginning,

Speaker:

if you're not making sure that your offer isn't without bounds

Speaker:

that's when you get into the deep water and you're like, "Oh, shit, I

Speaker:

don't know how to turn this around.

Speaker:

What do I do?"

Speaker:

And hopefully you have an email written for that too.

:

I do.

:

I do now, 'cause I have all of my emails that I wrote with Colie in

:

The Experience Edit in a Google Doc.

:

Now, some of them are automated, 'cause we love an automated email,

:

but I have them in the doc so that when I need to pick them up and use

:

them for something unexpected or as I'm in the middle of delivering

:

service, they're just right there.

:

It, that just makes it so easy.

Speaker:

Now guys, I'm gonna say just for a moment, 'cause you know

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she mentioned that on purpose.

Speaker:

She said in a Google Doc for her to copy and paste and use.

Speaker:

Guys, I'm, I'm really trying to be a little bit more relaxed in this phase

Speaker:

of my business, 'cause I think you guys know if she said that I would have been

Speaker:

horrified last year, the year before that, the year before that, because

Speaker:

no, we put everything inside a CRM.

Speaker:

But one of the things that I have discovered as I'm now working with people

Speaker:

in The Experience Edit, which is not tool dependent, like I literally give no shits

Speaker:

about what tools you are using when you come into The Experience Edit, because The

Speaker:

Experience Edit isn't about your tools.

Speaker:

It isn't about the process of actually automating the emails.

Speaker:

It's about the decision of which emails should be automated and which

Speaker:

ones you will be sending manually, customizing, whatever it is.

Speaker:

Those are the decisions that we make in The Experience Edit.

Speaker:

And so for me, I am now able, in this new phase of life and business, to

Speaker:

recognize that getting a Google Doc that has all of those emails pre-written

Speaker:

for you that you simply can choose and copy and paste and do your little

Speaker:

two minutes worth of customization before you send it, is enough for me.

Speaker:

It wasn't enough for me two years ago.

Speaker:

Two years ago I would have insisted that we find a way to put it in a tool and all

Speaker:

of these things, but like now I recognize that it isn't necessarily about the amount

Speaker:

of things that we are automating for you.

Speaker:

It is how we are making you consistent in what you are doing, and

Speaker:

consistency doesn't always require a tool that will automate it for you

:

I think that's a very, very good point, 'cause

:

I do know that you definitely challenged me as I was doing it.

:

Like, which of these can be automated?

:

Are you sure that can't be automated?

:

'Cause I am in Bonsai, I am in Flodesk.

:

I do cobble some things together because that's just the way that I roll.

:

Um, and y- you know, you really challenged that.

:

And so there…

:

I have a fair amount of things that are automated, but then there are things

:

that I like to customize for my service delivery, and that, um, I'm able to

:

track w- the w- when I, when I send them personally, I'm able to track to

:

see that my clients have received them, have opened them, have clicked links.

:

And that, to me, in the way that I deliver my process, is very valuable to me.

:

And sometimes that p- that part, and particularly in certain

:

parts of my process, is more valuable than automating it.

:

But to your point, like, we wrote the templates.

:

Like, we took most of the mental work around these emails away so that it feels,

:

they feel like a much lighter task to complete, even though they're not 100%.

Speaker:

Automated.

Speaker:

I'm with you, girl.

Speaker:

I…

Speaker:

Girl, if you had seen the amount of growth that I have had this

Speaker:

year, I just, I never thought that I would be telling you guys this.

Speaker:

But focusing on the experience edit allows me to have that perspective

Speaker:

now, because I literally don't care what tool you put them in after.

Speaker:

At least for the experience edit, I am focused on helping you create a five-star

Speaker:

experience that is consistent for you and the clients that you're working with.

Speaker:

And how you choose to make it consistent in a tool of your choice,

Speaker:

in a custom tool, all of those things are decisions that we make after.

Speaker:

Like, I literally, I don't want you to be bound or limited by the particular

Speaker:

tools that you have now, because it could be that for some of you, once you lay

Speaker:

out this, you know, complete five-star experience, you may go looking for tools

Speaker:

that help you automate some of those things easier in a more consistent way.

Speaker:

But for some of you guys, simply laying it out in the most consistent way to where

Speaker:

you know what you need to say to your clients, when you need to say it, and a

Speaker:

way to make sure that it's consistent, is all you need to get to, like, the

Speaker:

next stage, the next level of business.

:

Yeah, I think that's very true, and I think, you know, there's so many

:

things that kind of can get in the way of your process of delivering your service.

:

And so like being able to lay out all the steps and figure out like not just

:

what you need to say, not just, you know, what you need to prep somebody for

:

next, but also like what can I do to make this easier for my client in this step

:

so that that takes us to the next step?

:

I think that's another thing too, and that, you know, all of those

:

things then help you make the decision about the tool rather than

:

having like a tool dictate things.

:

Because like- Yes … it's just like design.

:

Like I could use Canva, I can use Adobe, whatever.

:

Like the, the tool shouldn't dictate what we do.

:

It's like what we need to do should dictate which tool we choose, and-

Speaker:

Yes

Speaker:

… Speaker 2: a lot of these things are changing so much.

Speaker:

It's like- It is … you decide next year you wanna change

Speaker:

to a different CRM, so Maybe,

Speaker:

maybe

:

not.

:

I don't know.

Speaker:

I mean, maybe I'm gonna convince Kelley of that soon, but,

Speaker:

you know, in the meantime, she's gonna keep her current tool stack, and I'm

Speaker:

gonna smile at her, guys, and be like, "Whatever floats your boat, girl."

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

There's one other thing- Right … that I wanna talk to you about.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Um, and it's not, it's not really related to any of that.

Speaker:

It is related to what used to be your end, which was, "Here are your designs.

Speaker:

Thank you so much."

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

What does it now look like after?

Speaker:

Because I love trying to show people how important it is to

Speaker:

think about after delivery.

Speaker:

And so what does that now look like for you?

Speaker:

Like, after you've had a VIP day, a packaging pronto, if you will- Mm-hmm

Speaker:

and you've delivered their final designs to them within five business days, what

Speaker:

happens now that you didn't have before?

:

Oh, this is a great question.

:

So before I had…

:

I send my clients a delivery doc.

:

It's a Google Doc with, um, "Here's the list of all the

:

packaging pieces we designed.

:

Here's what the file name is when you go into your Google Drive to pull your files.

:

Here's where I recommend you go get them printed."

:

Nice.

:

And sometimes there's, like, a little, little visual reference, because

:

that's the thing with packaging.

:

It has to be printed.

:

Some of my clients have their factories that are producing

:

their products print them.

:

Some of my clients are working with a supplier that I introduce them to,

:

and then some of my clients are taking the files and ordering from a website

:

like, for instance, a uprinting.com,

:

where they're able to, like, upload their files and order really seamlessly.

:

And back to tools, that decision is made based on what they're producing,

:

where they're producing it, how many they need, all sorts of things that

:

we've decided along the process.

:

So before, I sent them an email that said, like, "Hey, your final files are ready.

:

Here's your Google Drive.

:

Here's your delivery doc.

:

Um, let me know if you have any questions."

:

That brace, Kelley.

:

I'm so sorry.

:

Continue.

:

That's okay.

:

I mean, that was it, though.

:

Like, that was it.

:

Um, if I was doing the printer introduction, I would, um, I would

:

kinda kick off the print to the printer, but, um, like, that was it.

:

And, and at the time that I did that email, like, that was an

:

improvement on the previous delivery.

:

Now, I have that email.

:

It is more detailed, and it sets them up for the next step, which is, "Your next

:

step is that you are going to print this.

:

We…

:

I recommend that you print a sample before you do a full production run."

:

Um, but now I also have a cadence where I check in after that.

:

"Hey, you should have sent this to the printer.

:

How, how did that go?"

:

Yes.

:

"Did they have any questions?

:

Is there anything you need help with?"

:

How did that go?

:

And then it's, okay, you should've gotten your, you know, if you were sampling,

:

you should've gotten your sample by now.

:

What does that look like?

:

Do you need any support here?

:

Um, and then, and now I just have this cadence of like, at all of those

:

milestones that my clients are going to have from Getting their prints,

:

getting their samples, getting their stuff shipped, getting ready to launch,

:

um, I just have a check-in email Mm-hmm That's like, "Hey, how's it going?

:

How can I help you?

:

Uh, this is where you should be.

:

How can I help you?"

:

And then I've got two points where I ha- send them a feedback form.

:

One for the experience of the design day, and then one for, okay, like,

:

this should be out in the world now.

:

Like, what kind of business results- Did you get … are you getting?

Speaker:

Yes.

:

Yeah.

:

Yeah.

:

And after I wrote that email, I will tell you this, Colie, then I went back

:

and I, like, sent it to all my clients- Yes … that had released, like, in the

:

last, like, six months and got like-

Speaker:

You should have

Speaker:

… Speaker 2: lots of great case study information.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I'm sorry for yelling on the podcast, guys.

Speaker:

I…

Speaker:

Listen, I knew for a fact that Kelley was one of those people who really

Speaker:

took my feedback on that phase.

Speaker:

And I mean, now, I guess it, it makes more sense now, Kelley.

Speaker:

I didn't know that you joined the Experience Edit specifically because of

Speaker:

what I had talked about for off-boarding.

Speaker:

Oh, yeah.

Speaker:

So now it makes more sense that, like, you really took every piece of feedback

Speaker:

that I gave you on that phase, because we actually spent more time, you

Speaker:

and I, in that phase than on- Mm-hmm

Speaker:

anything else.

Speaker:

Because I was like, "You are, like, the perfect person that should be making

Speaker:

revenue on repeat from your old clients," because these people never just package

Speaker:

their process once and then it just stays.

Speaker:

I mean, everybody does, as you, as you informed me, they do holiday packaging.

Speaker:

I mean, they do all these- Mm-hmm

Speaker:

things that as a consumer I had never really thought about.

Speaker:

But the fact that you're not only doing the check-ins, because I gotta be

Speaker:

honest, a lot of people think that it is just, "Oh, let me send them a check-in.

Speaker:

Do you have any questions?"

Speaker:

And that's literally the…

Speaker:

That is the email that I hate the most, and the reason that I hate them is if

Speaker:

you're sending reminder emails that don't have specificity, your clients are

Speaker:

going to start ignoring them because they think they already know what they say.

Speaker:

But if you are specifically telling them the timeline and the milestones that

Speaker:

they should have hit, I mean, if they haven't done it yet, it either lights a

Speaker:

fire under their ass to actually do the thing that you're asking about, or if they

Speaker:

really were struggling, and, like, let's say that they didn't wanna be a bother.

Speaker:

I get that a lot.

Speaker:

I don't know if you do, but, like, sometimes- Mm-hmm … my clients are

Speaker:

like, "Oh, well, I was struggling with this, but I didn't wanna bother you."

Speaker:

Why?

Speaker:

You paid me money.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And if I have to tell you this, like, I've already included me

Speaker:

doing something for you in these check-ins with these check-in emails.

Speaker:

So if you don't- Mm-hmm … actually ask me anything, if I don't do anything

Speaker:

else for you, that's just free money.

Speaker:

Do you know what I'm saying?

:

Right.

:

Oh, yeah.

:

Totally.

:

Yeah.

:

And I think it's- There's that.

:

There's al- the…

:

There's also just like when, when I'm working on with packaging with

:

clients this might be their first time through this process, this

:

might be their it, it might still…

:

It might be their 10th time through it, but it's still a It's a weird process,

:

'cause it's not like a website where I design the website, I build the

:

website, I put it on the host, it's done.

:

It's…

:

It is so integrated with their product that, and because a print vendor is a

:

different vendor, my clients should have the choice of where they print things.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

:

Because they might already be printing somewhere and like the

:

quality and like the service, and the print industry is very decentralized.

:

Um, just meaning that, like, there's all these small…

:

There's, like, small local vendors, there's some bigger national vendors,

:

there's multinational vendors.

:

But a lot of the clients I work with, like, their best customer

:

service, pricing, quality is going to be with a smaller supplier, which

:

just, that's more relationship based.

:

They should be able to print with whoever they want-

:

Mm-hmm

:

… Speaker 2: to print with.

:

But that also means that the process itself is murky.

:

Yeah.

:

And I understand that process from a high level, so why shouldn't I, like,

:

check in and just help guide them?

:

Like, the…

:

And these are not complicated emails.

:

I'm not, like, breaking down, like, "Oh, you should be getting a sample,

:

and it should look like X, Y, Z."

:

And I'm just going like, "Hey, if you were sampling, you should have seen a sample.

:

Is it coming?

:

Has it arrived?

:

Have you looked at it?

:

Did it look good?

:

Do you, do you want any help with it?"

:

Like, it's a real- it's a short and sweet email, but it kicks off a conversation,

:

and then I'm able to kind of, like, adjust the cadence of the emails, too.

:

Like, you know, I've had some…

:

I had a client earlier this year who I was like, "You know, how is everything going?"

:

And I did one of these check-in emails, and she was like,

:

"Everything's looking really good.

:

We've decided we're not gonna launch this packaging until,

:

uh, like, September, October."

:

Mm-hmm.

:

So that means that, like, something that I had just- Yes

:

on my task list to check in, uh, you know, in like two months, I'm

:

gonna delay it another month or two.

:

But- Yes … that works.

:

That's, like, that's information that I can use.

Speaker:

And you have the flexibility to do that.

Speaker:

And it's interesting that you brought up the website design.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

Because one of the reasons that I love blogging, that I love podcast

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episodes, is that I can go fix it.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Like, I don't know if I'm the only entrepreneur that thinks like this,

Speaker:

but I will throw up a blog post in a minute because I know if it has a typo,

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if there's something that I didn't say as eloquently as I could, like,

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I will throw it up and fix it later.

Speaker:

You do not work in an industry where that is possible.

Speaker:

Like, when these people go through the sampling and then they go to

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manufacturing, like, there is no, "Let's print 1,000 labels to go on

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these," and then you realize, oh, this.

Speaker:

Like, I'm sure that that happens every once in a while, but that's

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definitely- It does … not normal.

Speaker:

But, like, when it comes to a website, I really do see that as, oh, you publish.

Speaker:

And if something ends up needing adjustment, uh, you can do it

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in, like, two to three weeks.

Speaker:

You can do it whenever you find it.

Speaker:

But for you, that's not true.

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For

:

me, if we find it, I have to change it.

:

We have to re-release it.

:

Your printer has to reprint it.

:

You may take a financial hit for that.

:

So you want to do as much, with mine, you want to do as much review

:

upfront as you can to double-check your colors, your spelling, your-

Speaker:

Mm-hmm

:

size, legibility, all of those things.

:

And then, and I'm not saying it doesn't happen, it does happen.

:

Like, it happens where, like, something prints and either it was mistyped

:

or, and no- everybody looked at it three times and nobody caught it.

:

Or, um, you know, something prints wrong.

:

The, you know, the print color doesn't match the sample color, and, um, those

:

things happen, and then you kind of have to, and again, you have to go back to,

:

like, what were the ex- what was the contract, what was the expectations,

:

and double-check those things.

:

Um, yeah, you have to, you have to do that.

:

But we can still iterate a little bit, but it's a lot harder, to your point.

:

Like, my client can't just, like, go in and change something and have

:

it show up on shelf the next day.

Speaker:

Yes.

:

Like you can with a website.

:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

But being able to lean into your expertise, because I…

Speaker:

We've gone in circles around this, Kelley, but I do wanna say-

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No … you have a lot of expertise.

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And, like, the things- Yes … that you just said that you were checking

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in with them, you would've been happy to answer any questions

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that they had in the sampling process, in the production process.

Speaker:

But now that you are actually extending a hand, so to speak, specifically

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at times, lets your clients know, "Hey, I told you this when you

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hired me, but here's a reminder.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

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I am here as a resource for you.

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This is what I would like to help you with right now.

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How did this go?"

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

And I mean, you know- You and I didn't talk about your pricing, but I'm quite

Speaker:

sure that you had already included all of this, you know, touch points and all

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of this in because you assume that some people are going to need some additional

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hand-holding during that process.

Speaker:

But now you're just communicating it to your clients.

Speaker:

You're doing it in a consistent way that means, you know, you're not accidentally

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skipping any of your clients to not get that same off-boarding or in-production

Speaker:

treatment as, you know, every other client that you've worked with this year.

Speaker:

So, I mean, I was most impressed with your off-boarding phase.

Speaker:

Thank you.

Speaker:

And I don't often say that, but, like, your off-boarding phase was one of the

Speaker:

best ones that I've seen come out of the Experience Edit this year, and it's

Speaker:

one of the reasons- Thank you … that I wanted to have you on the podcast.

:

Well, thank you very much.

:

Yeah, I mean, we definitely spent a lot of time in that off-boarding, and I think

:

to your point, um, you know, being able…

:

You know, a lot of the reason why my clients work with me is because of

:

the expertise, because I'm bringing, like, retail experience to their

:

packaging design that, like…

:

And I'm, and I'm able to walk them through this very murky process and shine a

:

light on, like, what they should be doing and making it a lot simpler for them.

:

So, like, it's wild how much, like, writing a handful of- Emails

:

can do … follow-up emails…

:

Yeah.

:

Yeah.

:

But it does really, like, I think it really improves that, their

:

feeling of support on that back end.

:

And, um- I will also say that, like, once somebody has worked with you and

:

you send them an email about an- almost anything that is related to your service

:

with some value in it, it prompts them to come back with something else.

:

It does.

:

They go, "Oh, I…

:

You know what?

:

I actually have been thinking about this.

:

I would love to chat with you- Yes … about this."

:

Yes.

Speaker:

Keeping you front of mind.

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Yes, it is a service.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Yes, you are following up.

Speaker:

Yes, you are, you know, extending a hand so to speak.

Speaker:

But also, those people are going to think of you immediately

Speaker:

for their n- latest packaging.

Speaker:

And, and also- Mm-hmm … again, life is busy.

Speaker:

Some of them are like- Yes … "Oh, I really need to reach out to Kelley."

Speaker:

And when your check-in email happens to land in their inbox, they're like,

Speaker:

"Oh, this is the perfect opportunity."

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

I actually wrote an email about this.

Speaker:

I need an oil change.

Speaker:

I know this is not the same, but I need an oil change.

Speaker:

I have been trying to remember.

Speaker:

My car prompts me every time I get in, "Colie, you have 100 miles left.

Speaker:

You have 20 miles left."

Speaker:

But it wasn't until the dealership sent me an automated e- uh, text

Speaker:

message that was like, "Colie, we have not seen your Tiguan in a while.

Speaker:

Do you think it's time to bring it in for a service?

Speaker:

Hit reply, and we'll get you scheduled."

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

That- Now I'm scheduled.

Speaker:

Do you know what I mean?

Speaker:

Like- Mm-hmm … and it's automated 100%.

Speaker:

No one in the dealership sent that to me.

Speaker:

But it was one of those things where it's a task that's on my list, and

Speaker:

I keep trying to remember to do it.

Speaker:

Because of course when I get in the car and it reminds me, okay, I'm

Speaker:

in the car, I'm driving somewhere.

Speaker:

So I can't exactly do it.

Speaker:

There's no easy way for you- Yes.

:

Right.

:

There's no easy way for you to do it from the car.

:

Like, it's not like you can hit a button on your dashboard.

:

It's not…

:

Like, you would have to see that, take out your phone- Mm … do it right

:

then, or set a reminder, or put it on your calendar, or do something.

:

Like, all of a sudden that is like, that is something that is preventing…

:

It's making it less easy for you to complete that task.

:

And that text message, yeah, somebody sends you a text message and is like-

:

Yeah … "Click this link to schedule."

Speaker:

Yes.

:

Well, I can do that in 10 seconds.

Speaker:

Boom.

Speaker:

Yes, I can.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

I have one question, Kelley, before we wrap this up because

Speaker:

I don't want to gloss over this.

Speaker:

You know how much I love client results, case studies,

Speaker:

obviously because you're here.

Speaker:

So you said that you took that last email and you sent it to a bunch of clients.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

I want to know what did you do with what they said?

:

This is a great question.

:

So what did I do with what they said?

:

Um, I have created some portfolio posts on

:

I … So like a lot of designers, I both have a blog and I have

:

a portfolio on my website.

:

Okay.

:

And with my portfolio, I do share both images, but also, you know, the

:

problem, the solution, the results.

:

And so I was able to update some of my portfolio posts and create

:

some new ones, and I have a few that are still on my to-do list-

:

Okay

:

to make, but I also was able to pull those results, um, into, like,

:

a couple sales pages for my service.

:

So, like, I just redid my Packaging Pronto sales page.

:

Okay.

:

And it is much more results driven than it was before.

:

And when I say results, like, yes, it shows the beautiful imagery of

:

the designs we did, but it also, it, it also has a gallery of,

:

um, these are the sales results.

:

Yes.

:

These are, these are the numbers.

:

And with packaging I get, I get a few different types of results.

:

I have a client who, um, like, they have a two-pack of sa- artisan salted

:

caramels, and they sold out their two-pack two or three times, um, where they had

:

to then order more packaging than they- Mm … than they thought they needed.

:

Um, I had a client that we, um, rebranded a product and did new

:

packaging for it, and her sales increased 55%- Ah … on that product.

:

That's great.

:

I know.

:

And m- and to your point- I wouldn't have known those things had I not If you

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didn't ask.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

That was my point, Kelley.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

One more thing, because you didn't say…

Speaker:

Well, see, again, guys, I asked her this question.

Speaker:

I had no idea what was gonna come out of her mouth.

Speaker:

But the last thing that you need to do, Kelley, is take a few of those wins and go

Speaker:

sprinkle them into your previous emails.

Speaker:

Sprinkle them- Oh … into the email that someone gets after they inquire.

Speaker:

Sprinkle it into the emails that you're sending to get people rebooked,

Speaker:

especially if anything was about, like, specialty packaging that they did on

Speaker:

top of working with you the first time.

Speaker:

Like, any results that you got from someone working with you a second

Speaker:

time or a third time, those are the client results that you need to

Speaker:

make sure go into the emails when you're asking people to rebook.

:

This is why you all need to work with Colie.

:

Um-

Speaker:

Well, you know, I love to d- And you know what I love most about you?

Speaker:

Is that you are very much like me.

Speaker:

I just told you to do it, and so I guarantee you guys that Kelley is

Speaker:

gonna get this done this month, next month- D- … whenever she has…

Speaker:

Today.

Speaker:

Yeah, I know.

Speaker:

I wasn't gonna say today.

:

This…

:

Not today.

:

No, it's not happening today, but today I'm gonna be looking at my priorities for

:

the month, so it's gonna go on my- Okay

:

to-do list for this month.

:

You are totally correct.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

I hope that you guys have taken something away from listening to

Speaker:

Kelley, because I know I bring a lot of people on this podcast to tell you

Speaker:

how awesome it is to work with me, and yes, guys, I am fucking amazing.

Speaker:

But what's more important than that is what you get in your business after you

Speaker:

do the things that I am telling you to do.

Speaker:

I tell you guys in this podcast all the time, I don't actually care if

Speaker:

you come do these things with me, but you need to do them, period.

Speaker:

And so looking at your off-boarding process, making sure that you are, you

Speaker:

know, strategically checking back in with your previous clients, getting them

Speaker:

rebooked, asking them about the actual results that they got from working with

Speaker:

you, is crucial to, you know, growing your business, increasing your revenue,

Speaker:

all of those things that all of us want.

Speaker:

And so I want you guys to think about what Kelley has said about her

Speaker:

experience and what it looked like when we started working together and what

Speaker:

it looks like now, and just pick one thing, one thing that you are gonna

Speaker:

go sit down in a corner and work on.

Speaker:

And if you would like to work with me on your experience, I

Speaker:

now have solo sprints available.

Speaker:

Uh, anytime that you would like to book one, go to coliejames.com/experience

Speaker:

to find out about how you can improve your experience from

Speaker:

inquiry all the way to off-boarding.

Speaker:

Kelley, once again, thank you for joining me on the podcast.

Speaker:

Oh, thank you.

Speaker:

And we're gonna have to do brunch again soon.

:

Yes, please.

:

I am ready for another brunch, but also thanks for having me.

:

This has been an absolute blast.

:

Like, mm.

:

Yeah.

Speaker:

All right.

Speaker:

That's it for this episode.

Speaker:

See you next time.

Speaker:

Oh-

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About the Podcast

Business-First Creatives: Client Experience & Systems for Service Providers
A podcast about systems, workflows, and business advice for creative service providers.
Business-First Creatives is a podcast for photographers and creative service providers who want to build a profitable, sustainable business without drowning in admin work, client experience chaos, or systems that let you down.

This show delivers clear, actionable conversations around marketing, CRM workflows, client communication, Dubsado and Honeybook automation, Airtable systems, and workflow strategies, giving photographers and creative entrepreneurs the systems that scale, operational clarity, and strategic, human-first client experiences they need to build streamlined, referral-worthy business operations that don't require working 24/7.
If you're tired of babysitting your inbox, chasing down contracts, or watching your workflows break the moment you look away, this show will help you move beyond "figuring it out as you go" and toward a creative business that brings you joy and a paycheck.

This podcast provides answers to questions like:
How do I automate my client journey without losing the personal touch?
What CRM workflows do photographers and creative businesses need?
How can I use Dubsado or Honeybook to streamline my client experience?
What systems do photographers need to save time and deliver exceptional client experiences?
How do I reduce admin time in my creative service business?
Why do my workflows keep letting me down (and how do I fix them)?
How can I build a profitable creative business that brings me joy and a paycheck?
What's the best way to communicate with clients throughout their journey?
How do I create systems that work even when I'm not babysitting them?
How can I map my client journey to convert more inquiries into bookings?

Hosted by Colie James, a Dubsado Certified Specialist, Honeybook Educator, and Workflow and Automations Guru with 10+ years helping creatives systemize their businesses—this show delivers practical, no-BS guidance for photographers and creative entrepreneurs who are ready to streamline their client journey, automate their operations, and make money from their craft.

If you're done dropping balls and ready to build a business-first creative operation with systems that scale, you're in the right place.

Find out more about Systems in Session ➡️ https://coliejames.com/systems-in-session